[CLBS] attorney fees

[Ford Elsaesser]

a c and d-yes------b-yes if pmt is from prop of estate.bigger risk for atty 
is sanction,clawback and worse if the "deferral"is not disclosed on schedule 
f,etc-ford-ps-how ARE they disclosing the deferral on schedules?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brad Rice" <barristr at pmt.org>
To: <clbs at admws.idaho.gov>
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 3:36 PM
Subject: [CLBS] attorney fees


Listmates,

    I've been following the recent posts with great interest, especially the 
credit card for fees issue.  I believe the judge is correct, but perhaps for 
a different reason.  It's now settled law that taxes paid with credit cards 
prior to bk filing negate the discharge of the credit card debts in most 
cases.  I don't see any difference if the cards are used for attorney fees.

    I've also been interested and amused by the posts regarding "in kind" 
payments for fees.  I've never taken a chicken or pig (or piano) in lieu of 
fees, but on occasion, I have traded services.  An honest valuation of the 
services would seem to me to cure any potential problems.

    What I am most concerned about regarding fees is the practice of the 
bankruptcy "mills" of filing cases before fees are paid in full.  Most 
potential bk clients I encounter are not sophistated, and share the belief 
that bankruptcy is merely a matter of filing huge amounts of paper with the 
court.  Often these folks are simply incapable of appreciating the concept 
of exemptions, fraudulent & preferential payments, and select their 
bankruptcy attorney based solely on cost.  By cost I mean what money it 
takes up front to get a case filed.  Personally, I won't file a ch 7 until 
all fees are paid in full.  Recently I had someone conduct a telephone 
survey and was surprised to learn that several high volume attorneys will 
file cases with attorney fees still owing.  One Eastern Idaho attorney 
charges an additional $250 for the option of paying after filing.  Here are 
my questions:

  a..     If attorney is owed fees at time of filing, isn't attorney 
obligated to list that debt on the schedules?
  b..     If attorney collects fees after filing, but before discharge, 
isn't attorney violating the automatic stay?
  c..     If attorney collects fees after discharge, isn't he/she violating 
the discharge injunction?
  d..     If attorney files case before fees are paid, doesn't attorney 
become a creditor, thus establishing an adversarial relationship with the 
client?
  e..     Doesn't the adversarial relationship constitute a prohibited 
conflict of interest according to state Bar rules?
    If anyone has any thoughts on this matter, or can point me to some 
relevant authority, I would be very appreciative.

            Thanks,    Brad Rice
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